Tech Note: We had a corrupt directory that wasted the comments posted in the first 7 hours of this coverage, If you submitted something and it's not listed below, please repost it and kindly accept our appologies.

"The best laid plans o mice n men oft go astray.... Burns or Frost perhaps I picked this very statement as it is demonstrative of one of the more adverse properties of the net - not only of the statement in and of itself but of the mere fact that anything can be put in print and attributed to anyone else. Things get out of hand quite easily. I now think of the Internet as one long continuous mouth-to-ear chain. Have you ever played that game What the last person hears is completely different than the original message How unfortunate that the pagan community in Saskatoon Canada was at the end of that chain than at the beginning. As for what you see on the net...look closely and ask yourself if it is serious. More importantly ask yourself if perhaps good intentions were perhaps originally behind the material now being presented to you. "

Date Posted: 1/5/98   Email: r.christensen@sk.sympatico.ca

"I just want to say that I found all the articles enlightening and very relevant due to the explosive growth the Pagan Community has been experiencing for the past few years. I was recently tangled up in a small Witch War which has ended peacefully thank Goddess but unfortunately there is a relatively public Witch War going on in the New York City Pagan Community involving some slanderous accusations being thrown around particularly at one of the Elders of my Coven the usual your 3rd degree is a load of bollocks nonsense This is the last thing our community needs right now. This is a critical time for us a make or break time and instead of keeping up this bullshit we need to band together stand together. The TIME IS NOW --Morboriel Parthenos Phoenix Moon Coven."

Date Posted: 1/5/98   Email: menhire@hotmail.com

"I am admittedly not sure how to express my feelings in a manner that will come off as being professional and calm. I was not so naive that I was unaware that witches squabble. The fact that all out war occurs blew me away completely. I am all for revolution and change where change is needed but I don't mean against one another in blatantly counterproductive and self serving ways. All I could think of really while pondering witch wars were the starving and dying children with their eyes matted shut and being eaten alive by flies. While energy and effort is being expended to attack one another there is a whale out there feeling the ripping pain of a harpoon as it steals away the life that the Goddess gave it. While this is happening the ones who have heard Her charge the ones who are Her warriors are letting it all happen. I wonder if the whale knows that no one was there to defend it because Her warriors were arguing and gossiping. I am not desensitized to the ways of the world but reading this makes me want to cry. It really does. It also angers me to no end. I want to shout what the hell are you people doing I know however through my own experience that time teaches best if not hardest. I am not Wiccan but I do not recall the saying being To Know To Dare To Argue About It. I am deeply wounded and I do not wound easily. I spend so much time trying to figure ways to best serve Her and Him and it is such a critical endeavor to me that the thought of wasting the purity that is Their essence by arguing about it is dumfounding. Any Pagan with a little knowledge can relive what it feels like to die from a harpoon blow or drown in oil. Even feel the death throws of lab experiments. Its all stored in the wondrous tool of the Akashic Record. It is a sobering experience. One I highly suggest. I commend you for bringing this topic to the open front. It is truly a work that is inspired by The Gods. Walk in balance...Shadow DragonRainKnight of the First Harmonic"

Date Posted: 1/5/98   Email: nethuntr@iglou.com

"Wren and Fritz. Thank you so much for creating this page on Witch Wars. Having been on the receiving end of all the above - we HAVE BEEN THERE DONE THAT. The Church of Y Tylwyth Teg was founded in 1967. Since then we have been attacked because of our popularity others wish for power others wish for money etc. That╣s because we do NOT charge to initiate we do NOT charge resident students except for an initial intro class. We do not stress power etc. and we certainly do not use our religion to gain control over others. But we have seen groups form for all the reasons you have identified and the result has been that few groups in Atlanta GA talk with each other or have anything to do with each other. Recently we have received word that several former members of groups that have attacked us in the past want us to act as their elders because after years of warring they have determined that its not worth it and takes too much energy. Yes you can wait out the attacks but the best way to win is NOT to get involved in the first place. That was our mistake. Ignore attacks make fun of them and they will go away if they find they are not succeeding. We no longer get involved in Witch Wars and have only honorable Witches and their groups as friends. We ignore all the others. Lady Cerridwen and Lord Rhuddlwm Gawr http://www.newageinfo.com/buscymry"

Date Posted: 1/5/98   Email: cgriswol@randomc.com

"Blessed Be After reading this series it makes me glad I'm a Solitaire and essentially did not have anything like these experiences. Merry did we meet. Merry do we part. Merry may we meet again. Bob"

Date Posted: 1/5/98   Email: balston@sierra.net

"Just a reminder that in the midst of all of this and the coverage is a necessary piece of work for the community it is important not to underestimate the value of the Righteous Warrior. We are not all Warriors and those who are invaluable in fighting injustice both within the community and without. It is sometimes necessary to put yourself on the line for what you believe is right and I can definitely see times when this might mean becoming involved in or yes even STARTING a Witch War. In ecology it is known that some forest fires are necessary for the survival of the forest. Not only does the fire burn out the deadwood and things that the forest no longer needs and indeed have even become unhealthy for it but the fire actually opens seeds that can ONLY be opened by the element of fire. In fact the Forest Service has been known to let a fire burn for a bit before taking action against it for just this reason. I am sure you see how easy this concept of the healthy forest fire can translate to a Witch War. It just may be possible that we need the fire and those who bring it. Their flames can not only make us healthier but may open parts of ourselves and our community that were hitherto hidden. This is an uncomfortable concept both in ecology and in the Witches heart since it seems to go against the laws of nature as we know them. And while it is certainly easy to get carried away and care must always be taken to pick your battles there are going to be times when members of this community must stand up and say That's not right and I will not allow it to continue. Sometimes they must stand and say that all alone and the courage that it takes to do that should be praised. Putting out the forest fire or not allowing it to start in the first place is not always the healthiest choice."

Date Posted: 1/6/98   Email: jayroe@gte.net

"Thank you for a much-needed and well-rounded series. I trust this material will become a permanent part of The Witches Voice. I'd like to share a cautionary tale about gossip not of witch wars but of the kind of casual chatter that can lead to them. I was a board member of a non-profit that was going to run a public circle at a regional Pagan gathering being held locally. Most board members and some other community elders met to outline the ritual. We decided to recognize not call local land-spirits for the elements as part of an eclectic ritual. After rapidly identifying three regional elementals for air fire and water the group drew a blank for earth. After some silence half-joking I suggested a local earthquake fault which happened to be geographically north of the gathering site. My light-hearted suggestion was taken surprisingly seriously and incorporated into the ritual outline we finished that night then we made a date to bring draft ritual components and consolidate them into a final script. By the next meeting a tradition elder presented us with a new script that threw out all work done at the previous meeting without explanation or comment. This person spoke as if all present had agreed on the change. I was frankly still feeling new in the community after only two years and queried nothing although the change upset me for reason of wasted our previous meetings efforts and the effort I at least had put into writing my assigned component to the original outline. At the gathering our ritual went off well using the new script. But I was appalled to hear our rituals HP telling someone that they -- the Pagan group sponsoring the circle -- had been going to invoke the earthquake goddess until he took the situation in hand. The tones in which he did so in a crowded hallway full of closely packed Pagans scorned the individuals the organization and their abilities. And they hurt me even while they began the teaching of two valuable lessons First when what you say comes back to you threefold or onefold or tenfold...you wont recognize it. Second perfect love and perfect trust is a goal as is harming none. I tell this story here because the episode rankles to this day because it could have become a mess he may have acted to prevent problems for the organization but did so behind backs and because if I were a more flammable personality I might have had a major bust-up in my own community. And Id hate that. But I hate the backbiting too."

Date Posted: 1/6/98   Email: Deporodh@aol.com

"Glad tidings to all. I am delighted to see this subject coming to the forefront and know it will help ALL of us move grow and take on new challenges opportunities to become more balanced and centered as individuals groups and most importantly as a diverse and LOVING Sacred Community. Have yet to delve deeply into all the materials and share the insights wisdom and inspirations of those who╣ve contributed and shared their feelings experiences and creative energies...may the Old Ones thrice-times-thrice Bless us ALL as we strive to move forward collectively and individually. Kudos and accolades to all who have so open heartedly put forth the efforts and time to begin the work of weaving this tapestry together. Bright blessings abiding serenity to all. Steve Aldrich moonschild@hotmail.com"

Date Posted: 1/7/98   Email: moonschild@hotmail.com

"It saddens me that some Pagan, Witches and Wiccans are not above the petty-selfish-egotistical urges that plague many religions nowadays. Especially Christianity. However I am proud that We have decided to discuss and take on this problem in our Pagan Community. Nothing personal again Christianity-----but I have been displeased in the past on how some churches handle such problems sex with minors, stealing power trips. They either turn their heads or blame Satan or do a confession. The accused do not take responsibility for their actions. Pagans should and thank the Goddess-----the majority of them do. I am very impressed with The Witches Voice for tackling such a sticky subject that has obviously been on the minds of Pagans for a long time. Personally I have still yet to encounter a Witch War and I hope I never do. But I know the reality is out there. And I know that other Pagans, Witches and Wiccans are strongly against them and are taking responsibility to try and change the course of such destructive thinking. And that thought alone brings Hope. For with Hope---magick shall reign the impossible made possible and happiness shall abound."

Date Posted: 1/7/98   Email: kmiller@halbar.com

"The first logical step towards unity is addressing our differences. Blessings to the Witches Voice for throwing open the ugliness of witch wars to the light of discourse. I pray that each of us find personal lessons in the wealth of information and inspiration presented here. I pray that I have the strength to live by the Rede and teach by its example. I pray that my sisters and brothers in the craft find joy in shining the beauty of our ways. By the courage of the maiden may we walk in love, By the understanding of the mother may we celebrate beauty By the wisdom of the crone may we learn to speak truth By the strength of the lord may we build the trust"

Date Posted: 1/7/98   Email: seasonss@mindspring.com

"First of ALL Praise the Goddess you have done it again. Our Group has asked me to post a note on these subjects. We Agree We agree We agree! This is the conscience of our group We have personally seen the effect of The want, The Need, and The have etc. Our group is now in its 19th year here in Hickory with seven of our members still here from the beginning. We╣ve had as many as Twenty members right now we have ten five couples four who are married and one single couple. We try to teach each other and our teaching goes something like this If it works utilize it if it doesn't work discard it. We never question the author of a truth as truth can be found in the strangest places. One of our couples practices Tantra and has brought the teachings of the Holy sex principle. While we always held the sexual act as Holy they had writings which gave us a new and we think better understanding. We will Dedicate our next meeting to the cause of not peace but understanding among pagans."

Date Posted: 1/7/98   Email: Dee@bluenet.net

"The coverage was excellent. It is time that the topic was discussed and people were made to see that in many cases the problems that escalate are a lot like childhood arguments on the playground. Just find the truth and stick to it, find out for yourself and don╣t listen to hearsay. Most of all, take no side, be neutral, but do not ignore the problem. All of this advice is hard to follow and easy to say but words can not hurt you if you give them no strength. I sadly left a coven a few years after I joined do to similar circumstances. I was a newbee and they knew more than I did yaddayadda ya. Well, luckily I just packed up and left. I was not going to be forced into summoning energy to do harm to the other group in question. I have no disrespect for that trad., only disrespect for the leaders of that coven. They were human and made a mistake I was human and got out. The only thing I regret is that it has left me very cynical of groups at first and I always feel a little uncomfortable. I work on that trust issue everyday. As far as it goes right now, I think I am making progress with the help of the goddess. Again thank you for this coverage and all you do on the witches voice it has been the source of many a discussion and the inspiration through many hard times. Love and Blessings Gawen"

Date Posted: 1/7/98   Email: gawen@webtv.net

"Wren and Fritz, I would first like to extend my congratulations on a WONDERFUL website. You have done an excellent job. Everywhere! I am a newcomer hereabouts but I like what you are offering. I have a deep respect for Pagan traditions. I even take some of them into my own life. I suppose you could call me a peri-Wiccan. I have not really devoted my life to service of the Goddess but I must say that the Craft of the Wise is in my opinion and experience at least quite aptly named. There is much worthy of respect in the traditions of Wicca today and I am very pleased to find people such as yourselves who devote such obvious effort and compassion to making information about those traditions available. Do keep up the good work. I would like to offer you one further point for consideration in the matter of advice for conflict resolution. If you find it sensible and worthy of publication then please feel free to use it. Walk a mile in the other ones shoes. Honestly try to see matters from your antagonists point of view. This does not mean caving in to everybody else's arguments. But when we honestly use our imaginations which any practitioner of magickal and spiritual disciplines has in abundance to place ourselves in the position of another person then we may find those common points of understanding that let us resolve the conflict which disturbs us. We may also learn something in the process. May Light Shine upon You Good People. Blessed Be.-STB"

Date Posted: 1/7/98   Email: csisbean@mcimail.com

"Follow the leader never appealed to me as a child. It certainly doesn't appeal to me as an adult. The game seems even more senseless in my religion."

Date Posted: 1/8/98   Email: Cecukua@aol.com

"I've been asked by my circle to post a few comments so here they are. I think its totally ridiculous the way so-called Witches act sometimes. I say so-called because *true* Witches don╣t start Witch Wars. This section of the site sparked a great deal of discussion among my group and we agree with what was said here for the most part. My circle all the members save one has been together for three turns of the Wheel. There are currently six members and one alternate all ranging in age from 16 to 24. I myself am 19 and have been practicing for five years. We need to start walking the talk people. If Paganism Witchcraft and Wicca truly are ways of living then we as a community need to put up or shut up as the phrase goes. Don't just mouth the Rede and the threefold law LIVE THEM. The last thing we need is to be torn asunder by our own bickering only to have the Fundie Xians say We told you so. Sparhawk WindRider Tenchi Muyo Coven 1"

Date Posted: 1/8/98   Email: jnsaizer@hotmail.com

"I wholly agree that as Witches we have a responsibility to ourselves and our community to stop playing games petty gossip and the malicious lies that go with. I have been involved in my own Witch Wars and still bear the scars I know how awful the experience is for everyone involved. That being said I must play Lokis advocate and present a possibly devastating side effect of condemning any argument disagreement or dissension. I lived for two years on a college campus that actively encouraged vehement censorship. Why was this allowed to happen on what was supposedly a liberal campus The censorship was done under the guise of being Politically Correct. It has come to this in our day and age that certain thoughts ideas and opinions are inherently wrong or even evil because they do not meet the standards of what is considered Politically Correct today tomorrow is another story I see that happening to a large degree within the Pagan community. No one has the right to tell anyone that they should not think or feel the way they do for whatever reason no matter how wrong their thoughts may seem. An example comes to me from my own community A new non-Christian group is forming and they argue that they are different from other pagans for various reasons I wont go into. The impression most people are getting from this group is that they feel they are better than the rest of us. Okay fine. I am offended by that but do I have a right to tell them they cant say it No. I do have a right to inform myself about their views and beliefs and if I feel strongly enough raise my educated opinion to the members of this group. This could start a Witch War but the alternative is a community barren of dialogue discussion and yes dissension without which we would not be the diverse community we are. Lets grow up and argue intelligently and maturely not censor ourselves into oblivion."

Date Posted: 1/9/98   Email: wildbriar@yahoo.com

"Which wars...witch wars. I am a witch I have made my own way through life since I was 16 by reading the work of those who came before me and by researching the history of witchcraft as we know it. I came to a startling conclusion that being that none really knows all the answers indeed most of us seem to have a hard time deciding what the questions are. I have been a member of two Covens in my time the first was a joyful and loving environment the second... well it was made up of people who strangely enough were all reincarnated from Camelot. When asked who I was in my past life I replied that I had been a dung shoveler and was politely asked not to return. What's the point of this ramble Its simple there are lots of witches out there we are all strong minded individuals we have to be to survive I am not like you are not like her but we are stronger together even if only together in spirit. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you cant work towards a common cause if we don't then we will die plain and simple I could site plenty of historical examples for this but do I really have to I am a simple man who enjoys Christian baiting its a fault I know but its so easy my ways are not yours and some of my beliefs would be abhorrent to most other pagan/witches. I will fight and die to prevent the burning times from returning but I will never turn my hand or voice against another of our kind that would be deserving of a place in the Christians hell. I will end by asking that you forgive my spelling and syntax. Blessings"

Date Posted: 1/9/98   Email: ozzy@stratford.webgate.net

"It struck me as incredible that such pettiness could infect the pagan community. We are told from the beginning in every book and by every teacher that there are several paths of paganism and wicca. I can't imagine what would happen if I were to become involved in a Witch War. My views or path are so off the beaten path that I can easily immagine someone having problems with them. I couldn't really imagine responding to such pettiness, yet you never really know until it happens. Emotion is not rational and it seems that emotion is one of the driving factors of this useless activity. The one reall cure that I could see for this would be for each individual to make an effort on their own part to avoid this stickey and pointless situation. Victor Kinzer"

Date Posted: 1/9/98   Email: gjax@hotmail.com